The Fantasy Football Archivers
The Fantasy Football Archivers will be taking a deep dive looking at the past Fantasy Football season to compare the ADP VS top 10 finishes for Quarterbacks, Running backs, Wide receivers, Tight Ends. Where Zach Waldron and Jon Miller aka J-MiL will be helping you compare the previous season to make you better at drafting for the years to come. Each season will consist of 4 episodes and the episodes will be released every 2 weeks.
ADP stands for Average Draft Position
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The Fantasy Football Archivers
Decoding 2023 Fantasy Football Tight End Surprises: ADP Insights and Unexpected Top 10
What if you could predict the rise of the next fantasy football sensation? Join us as we unravel the 2023 tight end landscape, dissecting average draft positions and player performance in both single quarterback and super flex leagues. From the reliable picks like Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews to the unexpected superstar rookies like Sam LaPorta, we explore how player valuations and draft strategies shift across different formats. With an eye on the top 10 tight ends of the season, we spotlight standout performances by veterans and new faces alike, unraveling the surprises and omissions that had everyone talking.
But it’s not all stats and strategies—prepare for a touchdown of pop culture as we dive humorously into the world of "Travis Swift," where the NFL meets the unexpected buzz around Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift. We then switch gears back to fantasy football, offering insights into the fascinating performances of Travis Kelce, TJ Hockenson, and George Kittle. Examine Kittle's boom-or-bust impact on the 49ers offense and the unfortunate injuries that may have hampered Hockenson's breakout. Unexpected stars like David Njoku, Trey McBride, and Cole Komet also get their due, as we explore how they balanced their real-world contributions with fantasy football expectations, providing a complete picture of the 2023 season's tight end saga.
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Welcome to the Fantasy Football Archivers podcast with your host, zach Waldron, and John Miller, aka J Mill.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the fourth episode of the Fantasy Football Archivers. My name is Zach Waldron, with your co-host John Miller, aka J Mill.
Speaker 3:Hey, hey.
Speaker 2:And on today's episode we are going to take a deep dive in looking at the 2023 tight end ADP versus top 10 finishes. To kick everything off, we're going to look at the rankings for single quarterback versus super flex. For tight end, the first tight end position getting drafted was Travis Kelsey at 5.3, then mark andrews at 26.8, george kittle at 44.1, tj hockinson at 47.5, darren waller at 52, dallas goddard at 59.6. Kyle pitts at 60.6. Evan ingram at 76. Pat fryer, muth at. To jump over to Superflex draft positions Travis Kelsey was 10.1. Mark Andrews was 29.6. George Kittle was 53.3. Tj Hawkinson was 44.1. Darren Waller was 67.6. Dallas Goddard was 68.1. Kyle Pitts was 59.1. Evan Ingram was 67.6. Dallas Goddard was 68.1. Kyle Pitts was 59.1. Evan Ingram was 87.7. Pat Frymuth was 95. And then David Njoku was 98.2. J-mill out of the tight end ADP, does anything catch your eye between single quarterback and super flex?
Speaker 3:I mean, obviously there were a few people that moved some positions in different ones. Kyle Pitts took a little jump on the second list right.
Speaker 2:If I heard that correctly. Yeah, yeah, Kyle. Pitts ADP went up for Superflex.
Speaker 3:Okay, and was it? Kittle and Hawkinson switched around on the two lists.
Speaker 2:Yes, kittle and Hawkinson both switched positions, also for ADP.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, obviously it still fascinates me that, as a result of people drafting in different types of leagues, the ADP ups and downs, but really, when it comes down to it, that's about what it is. It's just different people using different platforms, and people who play in super flex leagues tend to value players a little differently than, and put a little more homework in than, people, than people who might just be playing in one quarterback leagues, though, with that said, sometimes they just stick too hard to their bad takes too.
Speaker 2:Yes, I 100% agree To jump over to the top 10 finishes for 2023 tight end finishes. Could you guess who those top 10 were? J Mil.
Speaker 3:Well, obviously there's a rookie, Sam Laporta, who is him and Evan Engram. Based off of the format and how many points he got in a tight end premium setting, it was either Laporta or Engram that were getting the one and two spots. I think Laporta was number one on most of the list, so I'm going to put Laporta one, engram two. I mean I know the Mark Andrews injury happened. Dallas Goddard was injured and irrelevant. Kyle Pitts did not. That was Arthur Smith and Desmond Ritter there. So I have no reason to believe Travis Kelsey did not finish third on this list. I know there were a few surprises on the lower end. I know the Cowboys. Tight end is always relevant. I think that was Jake Ferguson that year and Dalton Schultz leaving Dallas to go to the Texans. I know, know, he was relevant. So, uh, besides that, when I'm thinking about everything, um, let's see, I I don't think hawk is still on this list because I think hawk was injured for a little bit and, uh, kittle should definitely be on there somewhere. He had another boomer bus season. So I'm not. How many am I up to? I'm up to four or five, six, you're at six, okay? I mean, I know fryers did not cash in there. So I mean I'm gonna guess that. Then joku appeared somewhere towards the bottom of this list. Uh, it's, it makes sense that he's kind of always right there in the top 10 conversation, though never what would be considered elite.
Speaker 3:Ah, man, justin fields kind of turned it on down the stretch. So maybe a call commit. Okay, so you have, and I'm just kind of lost. Okay, let's see two other guesses. Right, I need two more guesses. Um, you need one more guess. One more guess. All right, I'm thinking through, I'm thinking through. And who was on the list that I didn't say? I've already eliminated kyle pitts. Uh, hockinson waller, uh, fryer booth and who else? That's everyone. So you eliminated tj. I've already eliminated Kyle Pitts, hawkinson, waller, fryer, and who?
Speaker 2:else. That's everyone. So you eliminated TJ Hawkinson, darren Waller, dallas Goddard and Kyle Pitts and Pat Fryer Everyone else you have on the list.
Speaker 3:Okay. So, man, I'm really trying to think through here. I'm not. Oh, Arizona Trammick bride.
Speaker 2:Let's go there, okay, yes. So for the top 10 finishes for the 2023 season, for tight ends, it was Sam LaPorta at number one. Okay, evan Ingram at number two.
Speaker 3:The only two I was truly sure about.
Speaker 2:Yes. And then Travis Kelsey at number three I guess I felt good about that one, you took them off the list. But TJ Hawkinson at number four, oh, wow, oops. George Kittle at number five. George Kittle at number five, okay. David Nujoku at number six, trey McBride at number seven, cole Komet at number eight, jake Ferguson at number nine. And then, to round off, the top 10 was Dalton Schultz.
Speaker 3:Okay, so who did I put on the list that wasn't on there? Trying to think now, or did I only give nine?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, now looking at you. You only did give nine.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was getting a TJ Hawkinson because of the Cousins injury and he did spend part of last year injured, right, yes, he did, okay, and by last year.
Speaker 2:I mean 2023. Yes, for the 2023 season. But if you do look at it, though, tj Hawkinson did have a really good year until he tore his ACL at the very end of the season and Cousins tore his Achilles yeah, he was kind of owning it for a while in there. It's just I, yeah, I don't remember everything now. And then george kittle had great season, david nujoku went off because of joe flacco ah yes, the flacco factor trey mcbride took over for zackerts.
Speaker 3:Cole commit just prizingly makes the list yeah, no uh, that one's a little bit of a shock, but it's. Yeah, I only have it because I didn't have anywhere else to go.
Speaker 2:And then Jake Ferguson. It's the Cowboys. All Dak throws is two tight ends. Yep. And then Dalton Schultz. So let's break down going through the whole list on our opinions on the tight ends, with number one at Sam Laporta. He had great rookie numbers that haven't been touched since what Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean only the third rookie to have 1,000 yards receiving as a tight end in the rookie season. So I mean Laporta speaks for himself at this point in time, so he was clearly going to be a top target in 2024 drafts. As far as tight ends go, yes, I 100% agree.
Speaker 2:And then Detroit just had that powerful offense. Oh yeah, who's like, let's pound the ball, and then receivers and tight ends are going to be wide open. And then jumping to number two, in the first episode and the second episode for quarterbacks and running backs of the 2023 season, you both got on the Jaguars.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean I wasn't all that impressed with the Jaguars' offense. The only reason why I know anything about Evan Edgrim is because I've gotten the question wrong a few times on who was the number one or who was the number two tight end. That's not because I was paying attention to the Jaguars, that's simply because I got the question wrong enough times.
Speaker 2:But it's crazy though, for the Jaguars you have both a running back and a tight end in the top five.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean again, I don't dislike the Jaguars. Trevor Lawrence did not have that great of a season so I was kind of down on him.
Speaker 2:And Trevor Lawrence is out of the top 10 somehow. Yeah, and then I already know, once we get with Travis Kelsey, we're going to get a little.
Speaker 3:I hear it's Travis Swift now. It's Travis Swift now, right, yes. I'm pretty sure it's Travis Swift, now Travis Kelsey is taking Taylor Swift's last name. Yeah, quick fun fact Travis Kelsey. Contrary to popular opinion, travis Kelsey actually did get more NFL airtime than Taylor Swift last year.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well, I mean Taylor Swift was shown what once every commercial or before every commercial.
Speaker 3:Honestly, she didn't even have a full minute and a half of airtime during the three hour games. It's just most people are like she's on the screen all the time. It's like, yeah, she's on the screen all the time for like four seconds at a time.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, there's Taylor Swift. All right, let's get back to the game.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's. I don't like it or hate it. It was good for the NFL brand in 2023, and it will probably be good for the NFL brand in 2024 also.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the one thing, though, with Travis Kelsey. Yes, he did fall off, yes, he did not produce his top ADP where he was getting drafted. But you also had Casey, who had what would you say, a mixed-shape offense, who was not that powerful down the field.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it was also an offense that learned how to control the pace of the game a little bit better too. So I mean I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of them just continue to, uh, be better at real football than fantasy football in the future I agree.
Speaker 2:And you also had rashid shaheed, who had came on very strong at the end of the season as a rookie. And then to get to four and five, tj hoxton and george kittle we already talked about them in the tight end ADP for the 2023, how they both George Kittle was first, tj Hawkinson was second in single quarterback and then for super flex, they switched. Tj Hawkinson we talked about it was played great when Kirk Cousins was healthy and then, when he was healthy, kirk Cousins goes down. Tj Hawkinson is still great because he's the safety blanket for the quarterback, even though they're not great, but then he tears his ACL and then is done for the season. Do you think if Kirk Cousins and TJ Hawkinson both did not get hurt, he could have almost finished as possibly top three or fought for that number one?
Speaker 3:He probably could have fought for the number one, but should have, could have, would have it's fantasy football right. Yes, fantasy football, you can never judge anything, yeah, except where you know that George Kittle's going to be boom and bust because that 49ers offense has too many weapons. So tight end five seems like the most appropriate spot in the world for George Kittle.
Speaker 2:It's right in the middle and, like you said, george Kittle is probably the biggest boom and bust player that you can draft, but you know, if he does boom he's going to go off. Yeah, he wins few weeks when he booms 100%. And then you also had that offense, who is just powerhouse, and it's like George Kittle, where are you? You're Brock Purdy's safety blanket.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he's also setting up lead blocks and everything too, because he's one of the things that obviously we have to mention. George Kittle is as good of a full package tight end as anyone else in the league.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is very true. So, and then sam fran with number one running back, and then now a number five, tight end yeah, and also brock purdy, who finished in the top 10, also, but you do not have any wide receivers in the top 10 because you have two that you can't put. Both. Yeah, and then getting the number six. This is where the list starts to be surprising. David Njoku.
Speaker 3:I have nothing to say about David Njoku. He's just the guy that hangs around on these lists. So it's yeah. I mean I'm sure these numbers aren't spectacular, but I'm sure they're good enough right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have Deshaun Watson. Starts the season Horrible, gets hurt. All right, david Njoku, you're the only person Basically, yeah, even though Amari Cooper did do good, he did have the big games, but it was literally David Njoku's show for Cleveland. And then getting the number seven, the rookie Trey McBride, the other rookie on this list who's in the top ten, which is surprising that we have two rookies in the top ten.
Speaker 3:Was McBride a rookie?
Speaker 2:Wasn't he? Or is he a a second year player? He might be, it's just he did nothing. His rookie season, yes, yes, yes, zackerts was there also. His rookie year zackerts was the main the target. He then, second year zackerts, gets hurt. Trey mcbride comes in and miraculously just connects great with kyler murray, yeah, he had a very quiet, quiet rookie year.
Speaker 3:It's easy to think I mean, really it's. It's kind of wasn't rookie year in the sense of playing time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then another person who is surprising on this list is Cole Komet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got nothing to say about that. That was just a random guess to fill out the list. I mean, my logic behind it was Cole Komet is as good as any of the other rest of the tight ends, so therefore I'm going to put him on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like Cole Komet. It's like he's not your superstar tight end, he's not your below average tight end, he's your average tight end who's going to produce. He will have those boom and bust games, but he's always, if he can, he's going to be possibly your below top five, maybe sometimes your top 10, but not always. And then number nine, jake ferguson.
Speaker 3:That's the cowboy effect, that's, that's not really jake ferguson, that's in certain random dallas. Cowboy tight end name category yeah, that's the dac effect.
Speaker 2:It's not even the dac effect, it's the dallas cowboys effect oh yeah, because that was the romo effect before.
Speaker 3:It was a dac effect, wasn't it so? Yeah it was louis, though I could. I could very much argue that you know. Romo was thrown to a hall of fame tight end yeah, I mean jason witton is a hall of fame.
Speaker 2:Tight end though, yeah, but it's lily, it's tony romo. Had jason witton his entire career. Dad comes in. He has dalton schultz. Dalton schultz had great numbers. Dalton schultz leaves. Jake ferguson comes in. What does he do? He has great numbers. Yeah, it's no surprise.
Speaker 3:No, no surprise at all you need a late round flyer on your tight end. You pick up the Dallas Cowboy tight end, even if you don't know their name.
Speaker 2:Literally it's like all right, where's that Dallas Cowboy tight end, all right, he's right there. Okay, and then number 10 with Dalton Schultz.
Speaker 3:Former Dallas Cowboy tight end.
Speaker 2:Yes, he was a little surprising for me that he is in the top 10 because on how powerful Houston Texans with Nico Collins and Tank Dell as a rookie.
Speaker 3:But CJ Stroud was CJ Stroud at the end of the year and really, when it comes down to it, it's, you know, it's not that crazy to think someone could support three weapons in the top 10 list, especially since, when you really think about it, it's not like the number 10 tight end put up that great of numbers.
Speaker 2:No, it's also. It's yeah, it's number 10 top tight end, but it's not. It's like he's not going to win you weeks every week. He might, maybe one or two.
Speaker 3:He's not going to lose you weeks, but he's not going to win you anything.
Speaker 2:No, he's going to give you consistent numbers and for a flyer tight end, that's all you want. So to go back and compare the top 10 ADP versus the top 10 tight end finishes, there's some surprising comparison where you have pat fryer muth, who I don't even know how he is a top 10 adp tight end I probably move, is not that guy?
Speaker 3:let's just move on at this point and then darren waller.
Speaker 2:He just doesn't get broken.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's broken. Darren waller's broken.
Speaker 2:Darren waller's done giant, spent all this trade get him and he doesn't do a thing yeah, uh, probably played his last game at that point in time already. Yeah, probably. And then Mark Andrews he gets the pass because he was injured. Yep, dallas Goddard was injured, so he gets the pass. And then Kyle Pitts, like we talked about earlier, arthur Smith and Desmond Ritter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, again, there's pretty clear reasons as to why four of them did not make it, and then the fifth one is Pat Fryerman, who just should not be on the list at all.
Speaker 2:No, he should not be drafted.
Speaker 3:I mean in 2023, he probably should have been drafted, but I mean, moving forward from that, he probably shouldn't actually be drafted.
Speaker 2:No, yes, that is true. It will be interesting on how he is in 2024, though. Yeah, because is that quarterback for 2024?
Speaker 3:going to be kenny, kenny pickett still, or it's going to be someone else.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, obviously we know now, but we know now. But we will not get into that story until we jump in to the 2024 season, correct? Correct? To wrap up the list, to go back over top 10 tight end adp versus top 10 finishes For single quarterback, travis Kelsey was at 5.3. Mark Andrews was at 26.8. George Kittle was at 44.1. Tj Hawkinson was at 47.5. Darren Waller was at 52. Dallas Goddard was at 59.6. Kyle Pitts was at 60.6. Evan Ingram was at 76. Pat Firemuth was at 84.9. David Nujoku was at 86.4.
Speaker 2:For Superflex, travis Kelce was at 10.1. Mark Andrews was at 29.6. George Kittle was at 53.3. Tj Hawkinson was at 44.1. Darren Waller was at 67.6. Dallas Goddard was at 68.1. Kyle Pitts was at 59.1. Evan Ingram was at 87.7. Pat Frymuth was at 95. David Nujoku was at 98.2. And then to get over to the top 10 tight end finishes for the 2023 season Sam LaPorter at one. Evan Ingram at two. Travis Kelsey at three, sorry. Travis Swift at three. Tj Hockison at four. George Kittle at five. David Nujoku at six. Trey McBride at seven. Colt Comet at eight. Jake Ferguson at nine. Dalton Schultz at 10. Thank you for listening to the fourth episode of the Fantasy Football Archivers. My name is Zach Waldron with your co-host Jay Mill.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey and thanks again, thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Football Archivers. You can listen to us on Spotify and Apple and follow us on X at the FF Archive, and all of our information will be in the show notes.
